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Rank: Newbie
Joined: 12/09/2008(UTC)
Posts: 8
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Following the recent shooting and three months' of parking problems, noise and disturbance outside this club, what is the council's intentions regarding the licence? This establishment and the overwhelming presence of its door staff on both sides of the street, has overnight changed the character of South Woodford High road, especially on a saturday night, in a way which is proably unwelcome to the majority of residents.
Why did the coucil grant a licence to a nightclub on this stretch of the high road which is heavily residential?
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 16/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 66
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The Council's Licensing Committee granted a Licence following a hearing where the applicant put their case and the objectors (including the local ward Councillors) made clear their objections. Principle amongst these was the proximity of a residential building housing mainly elderly people.
The premises already had a licence, in its previous existence as a pub, and it is not clear that the application illustrated the degree to which the premises would be used as a night club rather than as a pub or bar.
There have been at least two serious incidents in the vicinity of the premises and the Council's officers and we, as local Councillors, are looking for the issues that have been raised to be resolved.
The option is available to seek a review of the licence, which could result in it being amended or even withdrawn, if the Council's Licensing Committee is not satisfied that the premises are meeting the statutory obligations with regard to nuisance to local residents and public order.
We hope that the owners of the premises have taken note of the concerns and will act on them.
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Rank: Newbie
Joined: 18/10/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1
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Friday 18th October, just picked up my mother who lives in the sheltered home next to this nightmare bar to come and stay with us. No longer can she sleep at night due to the noise from the club and the aggresive door staff that patrol the streets at night. This evening it was a fracas between a 'clubber' who was wearing the wrong shoes. Yes everything can be heard and in great detail.
Please, please close down this horrendous place.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 16/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 66
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A review of the Licence has been called. Any submissions about the premises need to be sent to the Council's Licensing Team for inclusion in the hearing by the relevant Licensing Committee by 30th October 2008.
Please note that representations will only be accepted from people who can demonstrate that they live close enough to be affected by the premises and they need to provide evidence of the harm that it causes. Obviously the residents of the Lodge next door will all be eligible to make representations but general comments from people living in the area, but not close enough to the premises, about its unsuitability are likely to be ruled out of the consultation. I'm afraid that isn't Redbridge's doing but the effect of the recent changes of the law relating to Licensing.
This has the curious effect that, although we as local Councillors have received a lot of complaints from residents, we are only able to make a submission if we are judged to live close enough to be directly affected by the premises.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 14/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 975
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Cllr Cleaver is, as always, most helpful.
Do we have any idea what 'close enough' means and would every resident of the Lodge have one individual vote or as they considered only as one voice?
annesevant
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Rank: Newbie
Joined: 11/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 4
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Having listened to a list of complaints from people along the High Road at the Chruch End Ward Panel meeting I think it is incumbent on councillors to represent these views and they should be considered 'close enough'. That is assuming of course that councillors represent the ratepayers rather than business. They should also go and ask people what they think rather than expecting people to send in 'representations' which they will then rule invalid because they are no 'close enough'!
Bob Hughes
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 16/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 66
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Unfortunately it is not what we think but the Guidance from Government which says that only people "in the vicinity" of the premises can make representations. This means that you have to be close enough to be directly affected by the premises.
We are well aware of the views of residents about this issue because they haven't been slow in telling us! Having opposed the new licence at the Lcensing Committee hearing we have then made sure that people who have been adversely affected by the premises know how to make their complaints to the various parts of the Council and have encouraged them to put forward their views as part of the licence review.
There is a legal process that has to be followed and what we need to do is to make sure that people who are affected get their views into the Council and included in the review process.
We see our role as doing our best for the people who live and work in the area and we are not linked to local businesses in any other way.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 14/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 975
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This question only because I am interested in the complexity of things. I hope Cllr Cleaver won't mind.
I looked up vicinity in the online dictionary: not precise!
I looked up 'vicinity' on the home page and was referred to a document which says that people must object in person (not anonymously via their Cllrs or MPs), this because the postcodes will be checked to see if they are in the 'vicinity'.
So, could somebody clarify things about how vicinitous you have to be for your reservations to be taken into consideration?
annesevant
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 14/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 975
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In the Ilford Recorder, published yesterday, there is an article referring to constraints being imposed on the night club.
I think that it shows that local people have taken action and that Cllr Cleaver's advice was listened to. Is it so?
annesevant
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 18/07/2008(UTC)
Posts: 225
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I read the objections to the place and had hoped to attend the meeting, but I was unable to. It sounded like a thoroughly nasty establishment and I'm glad that resident's views have been taken into account over business for business' sake. I only worry that it seems the owner(s) can appeal and thus stay open over Christmas, which is likely to be the rowdiest time of all. I wonder if a permanent police presence outside during problem hours might help. Well done to the people of the neighbouring home for their efforts to curb this abhorrent behaviour.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 16/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 66
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The Licensing hearing certainly got across to the Committee the problems that people living close to the bar are experiencing. Fortunately the family of one resident had managed to get the services of a barrister who specialised in Licensing cases and she did a very good job of putting the case against the bar. In particular she pointed to the repeated failures to comply with the Council's requirements and that there had already been two statutory breaches of the Noise Abatement Notice that had been served in September.
The decision of the Committee was to require the premises to be closed until further noise insulation work could be completed and to put severe restrictions on opening hours, plus a number of other conditions, but not to close the premises. Whether it would be able to operate in the way it does at the moment with the conditions that have been imposed is probably rather doubtful.
Unfortunately the licensees have 21 days to appeal against the Council's decision to the courts and we don't know how long it would take for the case to be heard. In the meantime the bar can remain open as usual which, I suspect, will include the Christmas period, and the Council's decision could be changed by the courts.
From this point it moves out of the remit of the Council, although it will continue to deal with complaints about noise, which I suspect will continue, and the Police can take action if there are any more serious incidents.
So round one to the residents and, hearing what they have been through, I have every sympathy with them.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 14/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 975
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I wish to thank Cllr Cleaver for explaining things so clearly ( as he has done in many occasions). He makes me understand the complexity of the work of both councillors and council employees. Where Cllr Cleaver is so brilliant is that he talks to us with clarity and without making any assumptions on the level of understanding of his readers. Simple, true and,... to the point.
Thank you.
annesevant
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 18/07/2008(UTC)
Posts: 225
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Hear hear. It's good to know there's empathy within the council. Thank you Cllr Cleaver.
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Rank: Newbie
Joined: 11/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 4
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Well done Clr Cleaver but I am a bit concerned that they are allowed to continue whilst appealing. I thought under the Noise Abatement Act you can enter their premises and confiscate their sound equipment but I suppose that might be a bit drastic.
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Rank: Newbie
Joined: 12/09/2008(UTC)
Posts: 8
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What is the current situation with this club. I undersatnd there was a hearing on Thursday last?
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 16/04/2007(UTC)
Posts: 66
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Sorry for the delay in responding to this request.
There was a further hearing of a subcommittee of the Licensing Committee.
The decisions taken were similar to those agreed before with regard to the hours of opening, which would be more restricted.
The owners have indicated that they wish to appeal against the decision of the committee so it is likely that it will go to the Magistrate's Court for a hearing. It will take its place in the queue for the Court so we don't know when this may take place.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 06/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,400
Location: Too close to Redbridge-i censorship
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Cllrcleaver wrote:Sorry for the delay in responding to this request.
There was a further hearing of a subcommittee of the Licensing Committee.
The decisions taken were similar to those agreed before with regard to the hours of opening, which would be more restricted.
The owners have indicated that they wish to appeal against the decision of the committee so it is likely that it will go to the Magistrate's Court for a hearing. It will take its place in the queue for the Court so we don't know when this may take place. ............ and in the meantime the existing, more favourable hours and conditions continue to apply. The government certainly made a pig's ear of the Licensing Act. :(
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 16/09/2007(UTC)
Posts: 874
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Morris Hickey wrote:Cllrcleaver wrote:Sorry for the delay in responding to this request.
There was a further hearing of a subcommittee of the Licensing Committee.
The decisions taken were similar to those agreed before with regard to the hours of opening, which would be more restricted.
The owners have indicated that they wish to appeal against the decision of the committee so it is likely that it will go to the Magistrate's Court for a hearing. It will take its place in the queue for the Court so we don't know when this may take place. ............ and in the meantime the existing, more favourable hours and conditions continue to apply. The government certainly made a pig's ear of the Licensing Act. :( And LBR makes a bigger one granting the liscence...
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Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 06/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,400
Location: Too close to Redbridge-i censorship
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BryanDicker wrote:Morris Hickey wrote:Cllrcleaver wrote:Sorry for the delay in responding to this request.
There was a further hearing of a subcommittee of the Licensing Committee.
The decisions taken were similar to those agreed before with regard to the hours of opening, which would be more restricted.
The owners have indicated that they wish to appeal against the decision of the committee so it is likely that it will go to the Magistrate's Court for a hearing. It will take its place in the queue for the Court so we don't know when this may take place. ............ and in the meantime the existing, more favourable hours and conditions continue to apply. The government certainly made a pig's ear of the Licensing Act. :( And LBR makes a bigger one granting the liscence... No local authority makes the law - they are compelled to implement the crackpot regulations made by the government.
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